I received this book for free to review and this post may contain affiliate links.
On November 1, I had an opportunity to speak with Mike McHargue. We discussed Mike’s latest book, “Finding God in the Waves: How I Lost My Faith And Found It Again Through Science”.
Mike McHargue (better known as Science Mike) is the best-selling author of Finding God in the Waves, host of Ask Science Mike and co-host of The Liturgists Podcast. He’s a leading voice on matters of science and religion with a monthly reach in the hundreds of thousands. Among other outlets, Mike has written for RELEVANT, Don Miller’s Storyline, BioLogos, and The Washington Post.
You can learn more about Mike at MikeMchargue.com.
“Finding God in the Waves” is a story of having faith, losing it, and finding it again through science-revealing how the latest in neuroscience, physics, and biology helps us understand God, faith, and ourselves.
I am excited to share some of our discussion.
Who is your book written for?
My book is written for doubters. However, I am finding that my book is appealing to Christians because it allows them to see how atheists feel. I am also finding my book is appealing to Atheists in that it helps them better understand Christians.
You mention in your book, “After praying, I decided to start a spreadsheet on which I could keep track of verses that seemed to hold contradictions.”
Do you ever look back at this list? How large was this list?
I had at least a thousand contradictory verses. I realized these same lists were online. I stopped duplicating my work. I have not looked at my lists recently. I am a lot more comfortable with the Bible the way it is.
You mention in your book, “If you’ve never studied astronomy, you may not realize that the sky is a time machine.” I love your analogy.
Space is vast. We cannot look back earlier than 380,000 years after the birth of the universe. When we look into the sky we see things that no longer exist.
Explain to me what it means when we say the universe is expanding.
The universe is expanding. The space between galaxies is expanding. The shape of the universe is flat and expanding forever. Suppose you are making raison bread. The bread is the universe and the raisons are the galaxies. As the bread rises, the space between the raisons increases.
You mention, “Our churches will never be healthy as long as those experiencing doubt feel they have to hide”. How do we change this?
They must pass the ‘knock’ test. We must remove the fences. The barriers of exclusion must be knocked down. We can’t push people away.
Mike, you mention the following mystical experiences:
“I was here when you were eight, and I’m here now.”
“I felt God with me, in me and through me.”
“Through God I felt connected to everyone else, all of humanity. And then to all of life on earth.”
What do you say to those who have never had a mystical experience? Why do some people have them and some do not? What is mystic?
A mystic is not out of bounds in science. Science does not rule it out. Science supports that some people have a natural pre-disposition to mysticism through practice. Anyone can increase their propensity to have mystical experiences through a practice such as centering prayer.
A mystic is someone who believes God can be experienced but not defined through languages. A mystic is someone who sits with God. No words are spoken. They simply sit with the experience and let it change them.
How do you pray? What forms of prayer do you practice?
I mostly practice centering prayer. I have been practicing centering prayer for 4 years. I practice Lectio Divina on a daily basis. I practice Ignatian spirituality where I place myself in the Scripture. I do practice intercessory prayer from time to time.
I believe in the Trinity. God is the source of all. God is unchanging. God is Being itself. Christ is the incarnate part of the Trinity that draws people to God. Christ is not Jesus’ last name. Christ issues the open invitation. The Holy Spirit dwells within. The Trinity is the ground of my faith.
Christ/Holy Spirit are enmeshed in our reality. They are personal and with us but also a great mystery. Scripture paints this picture
You mention, “As humans we experience space-time as a series of moments, with some in the past, some in the future and one special, fleeting moment called now. God’s perspective has to encompass space-time not as a series of moments, as we see them but as an interconnected set of coordinates that always exists.”
What do you mean by this?
God’s perspective must be so different. It can hardly be called a perspective. We see sequentially. The universe is not sequential. It does not seem to operate in this manner. God is timeless.
You mention, “Science gives us facts. Faith gives us meaning.”
How do you suggest people use faith and science together?
I let science win the fact arguments. But faith gives me meaning. Faith is the glue that holds it all together. Faith gives me a sense of belonging. It gives me hope. Love is the basic reality of our existence because God is love. We find God through love.
What might your next book cover?
It will be a look at what Paul said through the lens of neuroscience.
Thank you so much for talking with me today! Thank you for the great work you do!
Finding God in the Waves: How I Lost My Faith and Found It Again Through Science by Mike McHargue (Listen to this book for Free when you try Audible with a 30-day free trial.)
If you enjoyed reading this post, please recommend and share it to help others find it.
One on One Coaching with Rich
Does this sound like you?
“I am bored with my life?”
“I am not doing the things that I want to do in all areas of my life:”
-career, personal, family, community.
I feel unfulfilled, like I am just going through the motions everyday.
I have dreams and goals, but I am afraid to show up and take action on them.
I don’t want years to pass and be disappointed when I look back on my life.
Integrating Centering Prayer practice with your everyday life addresses all of these thoughts.
Do you want to obtain the freedom to become your true self, the person I’m created to be?
How do I create a long lasting and sustainable centering prayer practice?
I am currently taking on clients for Centering Prayer One on One Coaching sessions.
I will work with you to setup a program designed to meet your specific needs.
Transforming the World through Contemplative Prayer: Richard Rohr, OFM, and Laurence Freeman, OSB—two long-time spiritual friends—offer practical guidance for the challenges of this time in Earth’s history. They teach us how we can put our deepest aspirations for personal realization and social transformation into practice. Their combined focus on contemplation, action, and a shared passion for truth illuminates the origins of our crisis and shows us the path toward lasting change and a more just and loving humanity. Discover the power of contemplative prayer to change the world.
Following the Mystics Through the Narrow Gate – Three leading voices in the contemplative Christian tradition explore the mystic’s path: Richard Rohr, James Finley and Cynthia Bourgeault. Experience a very special weekend conference with teachings that guide us through the long mystical tradition from early Christianity to our own time. This view into our mystical heritage opens our hearts to the Divine Mystery in which we live and are surrounded. The mystical union to which we are all invited strengthens us to live our lives with compassion and gratitude.
On Encountering the Wisdom Jesus, this brilliant author and dynamic Episcopalian priest presents her first full-length audio course about rediscovering the Master of Wisdom. Twelve immersive sessions cover: the parables as wisdom tools; Jesus’s teachings about kenosis (or self-emptying: a path as radical today as it was 2,000 years ago); Jesus as tantric master; Centering Prayer, an approach to meditation as Jesus lived it, and much more. The early Christians, teaches the Reverend Cynthia Bourgeault, were afire with the spirit of Jesus, inspired fully by his teaching of a total transformation of consciousness. How do we reclaim that fire today?
Centering Prayer Course: A Training Course for Opening to the Presence of God – Centering Prayer is a silent prayer practice that can move you toward a profound relationship with the Spirit of God within. It is a way of praying that opens the door to the Divine Indwelling—the ground of our being. With Centering Prayer, Father Thomas Keating and his colleagues Gail Fitzpatrick-Hopler and Father Carl Arico present the first online course in this method for deepening your intimacy with God and ultimately consenting to the presence and action of the Divine in all aspects of your life.
Since the time of the Desert Fathers in the third century, Finley begins, Christian mystics have practiced meditation as a way of opening to the direct presence of God in daily life. Legendary seekers such as Saint John of the Cross, Saint Teresa of Avila, and Meister Eckhart explored how meditation can lead us beyond the closed horizon of the ego, to an interior and holy refuge that is always available to us. On Christian Meditation, James Finley offers a gentle introduction to this all-transforming way of life, and the ever-deepening realization of oneness with Christ it leads us to. (Based upon his book, Christian Meditation.)
Thomas Merton’s Path to the Palace of Nowhere: The Essential Guide to the Contemplative Teachings of Thomas Merton – Now James Finley, who for six years lived, prayed, and studied with Brother Louis, as Merton was known at the Abbey of Gethsemani, shares with us the gifts passed on to him by this towering figure.
The Teachings of Meister Eckhart: An Invitation to Experience God in Every Moment: The 13th-century mystic Meister Eckhart was the most brilliant Christian scholar of his day, but he was also legendary for the way that he opened listeners to the direct experience of God during his public talks. Today, his written wisdom remains alive as ever, ready to illuminate us. James Finley, one of today’s best-known teachers of the Christian contemplative tradition, invites us into Eckhart’s insights in the same way that this luminary teacher delighted in sharing them—through the spoken word.
“My experience—from the depths of depression to the heights of joy—has taught me that the path toward wholeness takes patience and passion,” teaches Parker Palmer. With An Undivided Life, you will receive his timeless wisdom and guidance to help you discern, trust, and follow your authentic self at home, in your work, and in the world. We all yearn for a life that is whole—where “soul and role” are aligned and our innermost wisdom guides us in our actions. Perhaps no one has explored this topic more deeply than bestselling author and distinguished educator Parker J. Palmer.
Waking Up in the World is an online event gathering of 30 of today’s most inspiring spiritual teachers and social visionaries—offering their most powerful practices to help us navigate these times with courage, purpose, and love.